KW recommendations Whole House Generator
I need to install a stand-by whole house generator for elderly parents home who live in Gulf Coast of Mississippi. The home is appx 2,000 sq ft. Natural Gas range, heating, Clothes Dryer, water heater I need to get a general idea of what the KW demand would be. MAJOR APPLIANCES---- (1) A/C 4-ton tempstar. (The unit is 5 years old and I can't read the spec plate.) (2)Double Door Refrigerator. (3) Frost Free Freezer (4) Clothes Washer--GAS clothes dryer OBVIOUSLY, THE ONLY BIG CONCERN IS THE SURGE REQUIREMENT FOR THE A/C Any general ideas from professionals would be appreciated Tempstar website says 31.1 amps = 7464 watts. Ran the load calc based on 2005 Article 220.82 and I come up with 21.16 kW. A 25 kW should be plenty to take care of them. Of course a 25kw standby generator is going set you back some pretty good money (about $9000 for the unit). What you can do is pick and choose which loads that you want to keep running during a blackout and wire them into your emergency panel. Loads such as your A/C, fridge, freezer and maybe some lights and a kitchen circuit. Add that up and you will find you can get by with maybe a 12kw generator for about $4000. Not sure why you would need to run the AC in an emergency. I would say a 16KW natural gas unit, which is a standard size would be adequate. I had planned to do this here but have not gotten around to it. I have 200A service and unless I split the circuits, which is difficult to do, I had planned to buy a 200A auto transfer switch and run the entire load on the generator. I don't have central air but I believe they spec the 16KW to be at least 3 ton capable. It might be more. In any event it is about 75 amps at 220. It is hard to believe the average home would ever need more than that. It is breaker protected though. If it trips, turn something off. Not rocket science. The biggest problem is understanding that the gas load is very heavy. Even a 16KW is like 250,000 BTU equiv. and that requires large piping especially if the distance is longer to the meter. You may also need to increase your gas supply service. Using the generator in winter in conjunction with a Gas furnace or boiler could really load the gas system. You could conceivably have 400,000+ btu of gas load going at one time. Check out the sites. Google generac for lots of info. Expect to pay $5000 for a 16KW generator and 200A switch, etc. minimum minus labor. Expect to pay $6-9,000 for a turnkey install. You can do it yourself if you have the know how but it is not a trivial thing. Elderly parents and scorching heat with saturating humidity during hurricane season along with medical equipment. If it were just a few hours or a day with out electricity I would just use a 12,000 btu maybe 6000 kw portable. Unfortunatly these storms can cause so much damage to infrastructure it can be weeks w/out power. Gasoline often is unobtainable and large quantities are difficult to store and maintain. Additionally, their home has never lost access to natural gas during even the worst storm so that fuel appears to be the best alternative and most dependable. For the whole house stand by generator useage the typical common unit is 12 to 20 KW size depending on the set up and code cycle you are in and there are few gotcha there to watch out. Dsc did expain pretty clear with the set up most common fuel for stand by generator typically are Natural gas or LP { propane } but once a while diesel fueled unit will showup on the list. With natural gas you will have to change the gas meter size due the generator load it can wreck hovac if not done right. Check out the info with your gas supply centre Propaned fueled units typically are not too bad but still have to watch the fuel supply and if the tank is big engouh espcally in cold weather that may raise some issue with it. But I allready installed few bigger unit than that size the last one I did was 75 KW diesel unit that will take care the FULL house system.,, everything what ya think in there. And yeah pay attetion to the transfer switch set up this part it can get pretty picky if not carefully. Merci,Marc Originally Posted by Slohand Elderly parents and scorching heat with saturating humidity during hurricane season along with medical equipment. I feel for them. It can be brutal that time of year in that area. Gotta figure about $12,000 for the complete installation. But, is it really necessary to run the whole-house AC? That's upping the cost by thousands of dollars. A friend recently installed an auto-start 10kw for around $3,000, and it runs everything except his AC. (In Buffalo, New York, AC is a low-priority convenience!) A very good portable room air conditioner can be bought for a few hundred dollars. Most people will use only a couple of rooms in the house when they're hunkered down for a storm, and the portable can move with them from room to room. What medical equipment? Oxygen generators require power at all times (and usually have minimal battery backups), but if your parents are in an area where the power goes out frequently they should also have bottled oxy on hand. Most other medical equipment, like pumps, draw very little power. 16 KW minimum, I would recommend the 22KW unit. The real benefit of the 22KW and higher units is the engine life and the sound levels. everything made by Guardian/Generac that is under 22KW is air cooled = Loud when they run, and short engine life. The 22 KW Quiet source unit is liquid cooled, it runs very quiet and you will get 20 years out of it if properly maintained By the way the 16 KW Guardian is rated for a 5 Ton A/C with about 7000 watts to spare. The surge rating is about 30KW Originally Posted by rich3236 16 KW minimum, I would recommend the 22KW unit. The real benefit of the 22KW and higher units is the engine life and the sound levels. everything made by Guardian/Generac that is under 22KW is air cooled = Loud when they run, and short engine life. The 22 KW Quiet source unit is liquid cooled, it runs very quiet and you will get 20 years out of it if properly maintained By the way the 16 KW Guardian is rated for a 5 Ton A/C with about 7000 watts to spare. The surge rating is about 30KW I agree except we are talking about a very low usage here. Maybe 24 hours a year and most of that would be testing. There is nothing wrong with air cooled engines that are properly designed. We use them all the time. My Wheel Horse tractor 18HP air cooled engine has over 980 hours and runs like a top. It was subjected to as much or more stress than a generator would be. The problem is the cost. you are jumping to a whole other class. You also go up in gas supply requirements a great deal. I just contacted my HVAC provider who gave me an initial quote of natural gas whole house Carrier brand standby generator. Ballpark $9600 turnkey sized at 20K which would include my 5 ton Carrier A/C unit. My cooktop, hot water heater, and dryer are natural gas. The formalized estimate will occur after they come onsite to inspect the distance between the gas meter and electrical panel, what utility has to be extended by what length, etc. Also the mounting pad and automatic switching that would occur at a 20 second power loss detection. It would also be programmed to turn on/off for 12 mins each week. He did indicate probably 8 circuits put on the panel and that I could manually load balance by being aware to turn off A/C if I were to want add'tl items turned on to run. (I assume that would be microwave, electric oven, etc). Re rich3236 query on whether A/C that important. There's no comparison between the gulf coast region and Buffalo NY when it comes to A/C. Our A/C is equivalent to the need for heat during winter months in Buffalo and other northern states. It's a must not simply a convenience. High humidity in gulf coast region and heat can produce and/or flare up many health related issues and can start a mold moisture situation in a home rather quickly. Also, HVAC provider indicated that the Carrier generator comes with 2 year warranty and an add'tl 3 year warranty maintenance can be purchased. He indicated that's not the case with others. Obviously, my HVAC guy is a certified Carrier provider so would have a bias in this regard. Is there a website to find a collective review of standby generators by manufacturer, features, price to determine which is the best on the market based on performance along with price? Tks Warranty extensions that you pay for are one of the biggest ripoffs out there. It's like insurance, but without any competition keeping prices low. Especially because that 3-5 age span is when failures are *least* likely to happen. Manufacturing flaws will probably show up in the first 2 years, while things wearing out prematurely will probably take longer than 5. This is why many car manufacturers are going to longer warranties, they know how old most of their vehicles get before the rate of repairs starts climbing. The carrier unit is good buti would get a second or third estimate. Also Gererac is the competition to that and there should be a dealer in your area. Usually it goes from 16KW to about 20 or 24kw but keep in mind these units are usually rated for LP and there is about a 5-10% derating for natural gas. I agree about the maintenance. Treated nicely and seldom used except tested these things should last a lifetime. Some have an hours warranty and I have seen a thousand hours or more. Considering these test for about 15 minutes each week, if it were not used for emergency that is about 15 hours a year! Even if you had two one week outages you are still only looking at just over 300 hours. Keep the oil changed and use good oil. One more thing.... this is not a good time to buy a generator. If you can wit til winter you might get a better deal. Doesn't Generac make the generator for Carrier? The parts listing is very similar anlong with the design and specs. Yes they may be the same, check the engine type. The other one to check is Kohler. This one: http://zillerelectric.com/Kohler_Gen...tor_17RES.html is 17KW rated and they claim will start a 5 ton A/C and power the rest of the house. Let us know what you finalize on. Always good to have more input. I have been toying around with doing it. I would get a 16/17Kw and a 200A transfer switch for total house transfer. The gen sets run around $3500-4000 and the 200A transfer is about $1000. So do it yourself would probably run about $6000 when you got done with materials, maybe a little less. So you can judge the labor for a non do it yourself install. Carrier is just a Guardian with a different paint job. Originally Posted by jayjohn152 Re rich3236 query on whether A/C that important. There's no comparison between the gulf coast region and Buffalo NY when it comes to A/C. Our A/C is equivalent to the need for heat during winter months in Buffalo and other northern states. It's a must not simply a convenience. For the record, rich3236 lives in Florida. He posted the next post after mine (and certainly knows the importance of A/C!). I live in Buffalo. I wasn't being frivolous in suggesting a room A/C instead of a larger genny. The money savings is significant. Believe it or not, we have weeks of summer days in Buffalo when the temp nears 100 and the humidity is above 90%. During those times, my neighbors with their whole-house A/C systems complain that their electric bills jump to $250 or more. Mine stays at or below $100 because we use a room A/C only in the bedroom at night. (The rest of the time we're in the pool or out in the boat enjoying Buffalo's short-lived summers.) Point is, my suggestion was to save a whole lot of both the initial expense and operating expense of installing a huge genny by sacrificing a bit of convenience during a storm. Then again, we're talking about elderly parents. They can't be expected to remember to flip that switch and unplug this and so on if the power goes out. And they deserve to be comfortable. During our inevitable Buffalo winter storms, my brothers and I race to our 87-year old mom's house to make sure the backup systems are working. (We all have 4wd's and one has two snowmobiles!) Like I said, I feel for them ... Hello All I agree that having a automatic system is pretty cool, but when these things sit around for awhile things tend to go wrong at the wrong time. Some of these standby systems do have an exercise feature that starts the engine from time-to-time, but Mother Nature can and will build nests in the wrong places (air cleaners generator cabinet) and completely cover them with snow as they try to start up (water damage from melting snow). All the posts are very informative and up to NFPA NEC code, but anything that sits outside is susceptible to pests. I live in rural PA and and am in the military. I deployed this past winter and my wife had to fend for herself for 5 days with out power. Keep in mind I don't have natural gas, or city water (well pump). I juggled with buying in to the whole standby by generator thing until I visited my millionaire uncle in Flordia that loves to show off his toys. All I can say is that his generator was 1 week old and had not been run for 2 days and the aircleaner intake was clogged with yellowjackets. Needless to say we all got stung trying to investigate why it wouldn't start, the starter was just about fried, and the service guy had a two day backlog. So, I fixed it. Air intake and all. It was a pain, no joke. Since then three neighbors have had these things installed and one attracted a queen bee, the second had serious corrosion on a P.C. board, and the third had an undersized propane tank that froze up. (mind you vaporization limits vs tank size) IE..need a big tank with big pipes to run this thing. Solution (for me at 32yrs old) a 10Kw Hobart Champion welder/generator with a battery start (push button start) delivered to my door tax free from Rural King and a plain ole GE 60 amp transfer panel. Welder/Generator is a tool as well, and can be moved, or kept in shed running with door open and exhaust well ventilated. Overall welder/generators take one heck of a beating, just take a look at the one mounted on the back of welding trucks as you go down the road. Solution for your parents. Just like any aircraft I've flown there is an emergency bus. Break down the electrical essentials in their home into a few circuits along with a Window Air conditioner 50amp max. Running a central air conditioner in FL via generator is pretty steep. Just like the other posts suggest Hunker down in one, or two rooms. The power will not be out forever. So a window A/C , or portable A/C tucked away in a closet that can be wheeled out might do. I would say as long as they are able to open a door and press a button and flick the transfer breaker and wheel out a portable A/C unit then most larger portable generators, or welder/generators will do. PA Registered Electrician soon to be Registered Solar Installer
Related Posts:
Opinions on aquasana and pelican whole house filters
Opinions on Aquasana and Pelican whole house filtersHello, Curious to know if anyone has any experience/opinions of/with either of these brands? I'm interested in getting a whole house system. How...
Power inverter for the house
Power inverter for the houseEverytime we have a power outage (about 4 times a year) I start thinking about an outside source of electricity for the house. Not necessarily something to run the whol...
New whirlpool whole house water filter
New whirlpool whole house water filterJust trying to get information on this new filter available at Lowes.. Price 377.00 ... Has anyone here tried out this unit or know anything about it..The lit...
Portable generator gas vs propane
Portable generator: gas vs. propanea quick comparison between gas and propane generator yield that gas generator are cheaper than their counter part of the same wattage. lets say that a genny xyz,...
Manual transfer switch or generator interlock
Manual Transfer switch or Generator interlock?Manual Switches are expensive. Some cost more than the generator does! I have another post about the sizing of generators and read about the interlock...
